For a lot of us in Pennsylvania, we have to drive two hours to go sail.
I don’t know that many married couples that make it a Friday to Sunday night thing.
More like daysailers that make the drive and return.
I just spoke with my previous marina manager.
Slips during Covid were seeing a 25% increase in costs. Now as of yesterday, 94 empty slips in a marina of 400. Bargains there of boat and slip combos for dirt money. But, as mentioned above, not great shape boats.
Hi Brad! Thanks for this insight. I just spoke to a yard in RI, and same thing: lots of slips and moorings available. I nearly fell out of my chair. Hopefully this means prices will start to fall as typical market forces take hold…
I've been looking for 3 years, and seriously ready to buy after the first 6 months. I see a few common threads in my search that frustrates me no matter where I look. (Mass, New Hampshire, Maine) Even if the seller has a completed add full of info, and pictures, the sellers seem to think the boat should sell itself. Like all the work was done in the add. I've walked away from over a dozen potential boats last summer simply cause the seller got annoyed after the 3rd or 4th question.
And then there is the subject of survey. If the survey is more than a year or 2 old, Im getting a new one. EVEN on a $5000 barn find. Again sellers get an attitude, and a few told me they weren't going to sell to me.
And the ratio of ads with complete info, including plenty of pictures inside and out to the ones with the boat, the helm, maybe the electronics console, and a sunset is crazy.
Just this morning I scrolled by 38 out of 52 adds because they didn't include enough pictures, or the seller copy and pasted the original sales pitch from the manufacturer.
Not all boats listed are considered serious sellers, in my book.
That’s nuts. Seller’s should be willing to explain everything to a potential buyer. You’re right to walk away. A frustrating process to be sure. If they balk at you wanting a survey, they’re hiding something…
As I consider a sailboat purchase the #1 reason for hesitation are the unknown upkeep and storage costs that will inevitably follow the purchase. Not knowing if my $20,000 expenditure will cost me an additional 20, 25, or 50k per year every year forever makes me unlikely to venture into the murky waters of boat ownership. Particularly given the high likelihood that I would not be able to sell easily if i wanted to. Actual clarity on ongoing costs would make the decision an emotional one rather than a fully irrational one.
Boats are definitely not liquid assets. I think with proper planning and due diligence prior to buying is the key - finding out all of your fixed costs like moorings/slip, storage, etc. Then finding a boat that has big ticket items that are new/newer like sails, engine, etc., and getting a really good survey that will outline priority fixes and updates needed down the road. Proper budgeting is key. Of course there are unforeseen issues that can arise. It’s a lot like owning a house, save for the fact it’s a depreciating asset. It doesn’t have to be hugely expensive and a lot depends on the size of the boat. But you make good points. The unknown feels risky.
Here in South Florida dockage is key, We probably have a bubble because of geography. (We are the only part of the Carribean you can drive to...) Slip rates here have tripled in the last 8 years. Annual Dockage can now cost more than the market value of a "mature" sailboat. The power boat market drives the demand.
I think another factor in the cost of ownership is our human love of technology. Most of the systems we consider must haves have nothing to do with sailing. Not actually sailing. In mast furling is far more expensive than slab yet it is the standard equipment on new monohulls. Our effort to make sailing easier is making ownership harder. Electronic suites that go on for days. Ironically I install Electronics for a living, and tell my clients less is more. Once you have all the toys you have to maintain them. This makes ownership more daunting. Partnerships probably make more sence, but my boat is so personal I have a hard time imagining sharing the process. For daysailing a boat club probably makes sence if you find one that keeps the boats tip top. For cruising a partnership would still feel more personal that charter fleet boats. Personally I just don't like the feel of bare boats I have chartered. I am probably a snob but I spend the whole week making a mental list of how I would "fix" the boat. In summary I do not know how to reduce the cost of dockage or insurance. Maintenance can be simplified with less stuff that isn't actually needed. Time: well that is a choice we all have to make.
Excellent observation. And I agree with this completely. The race to make everything on a boat more sophisticated is actually leaving more and more people behind. Hopefully the trend reverses, along with slip and mooring fees. There are several examples up here where there is actual availability for slips and moorings which is unheard of, so many demand is weakening and prices will come down…? Thanks for the comment.
Our 1970 33' Sloop is probably worth about $7500 and the annual fixed costs (mooring, storage, insurance, seatow, registration, etc.) adds up to about $5,000. That's about 80% of the boat value, not 15%. We can afford it only because of our partnership but one member is aging out. Also, insurance company frowns on partnership with such an old boat so officially, its mine.
Interesting. We haven’t run into that issue with our insurance (Progressive) but we purchased the boat as a LLC. Wonder if that makes a difference? We all (3) had to submit our sailing resume and that was about it.
We're with Ski Safe.. they said, "We would decline to cover that risk" (as a partnership). Didn't ask anything else. They did cover it with me as sole owner. I think the age of the boat had something to do with it but I'm not sure how. Good to know others will. I think it is the way to go. Not only does partnership help with the costs but if you don't have a family that is keen on sailing, partners work too! We've been partners for 20 years approx.
Agreed. The partnership has worked very well for us. 5th season upcoming. Our wives like to sail but don’t love it the way we do so it has worked very well for us so far.
For a lot of us in Pennsylvania, we have to drive two hours to go sail.
I don’t know that many married couples that make it a Friday to Sunday night thing.
More like daysailers that make the drive and return.
I just spoke with my previous marina manager.
Slips during Covid were seeing a 25% increase in costs. Now as of yesterday, 94 empty slips in a marina of 400. Bargains there of boat and slip combos for dirt money. But, as mentioned above, not great shape boats.
Hi Brad! Thanks for this insight. I just spoke to a yard in RI, and same thing: lots of slips and moorings available. I nearly fell out of my chair. Hopefully this means prices will start to fall as typical market forces take hold…
I've been looking for 3 years, and seriously ready to buy after the first 6 months. I see a few common threads in my search that frustrates me no matter where I look. (Mass, New Hampshire, Maine) Even if the seller has a completed add full of info, and pictures, the sellers seem to think the boat should sell itself. Like all the work was done in the add. I've walked away from over a dozen potential boats last summer simply cause the seller got annoyed after the 3rd or 4th question.
And then there is the subject of survey. If the survey is more than a year or 2 old, Im getting a new one. EVEN on a $5000 barn find. Again sellers get an attitude, and a few told me they weren't going to sell to me.
And the ratio of ads with complete info, including plenty of pictures inside and out to the ones with the boat, the helm, maybe the electronics console, and a sunset is crazy.
Just this morning I scrolled by 38 out of 52 adds because they didn't include enough pictures, or the seller copy and pasted the original sales pitch from the manufacturer.
Not all boats listed are considered serious sellers, in my book.
or maybe its the market I'm looking in.
That’s nuts. Seller’s should be willing to explain everything to a potential buyer. You’re right to walk away. A frustrating process to be sure. If they balk at you wanting a survey, they’re hiding something…
As I consider a sailboat purchase the #1 reason for hesitation are the unknown upkeep and storage costs that will inevitably follow the purchase. Not knowing if my $20,000 expenditure will cost me an additional 20, 25, or 50k per year every year forever makes me unlikely to venture into the murky waters of boat ownership. Particularly given the high likelihood that I would not be able to sell easily if i wanted to. Actual clarity on ongoing costs would make the decision an emotional one rather than a fully irrational one.
Boats are definitely not liquid assets. I think with proper planning and due diligence prior to buying is the key - finding out all of your fixed costs like moorings/slip, storage, etc. Then finding a boat that has big ticket items that are new/newer like sails, engine, etc., and getting a really good survey that will outline priority fixes and updates needed down the road. Proper budgeting is key. Of course there are unforeseen issues that can arise. It’s a lot like owning a house, save for the fact it’s a depreciating asset. It doesn’t have to be hugely expensive and a lot depends on the size of the boat. But you make good points. The unknown feels risky.
Here in South Florida dockage is key, We probably have a bubble because of geography. (We are the only part of the Carribean you can drive to...) Slip rates here have tripled in the last 8 years. Annual Dockage can now cost more than the market value of a "mature" sailboat. The power boat market drives the demand.
I think another factor in the cost of ownership is our human love of technology. Most of the systems we consider must haves have nothing to do with sailing. Not actually sailing. In mast furling is far more expensive than slab yet it is the standard equipment on new monohulls. Our effort to make sailing easier is making ownership harder. Electronic suites that go on for days. Ironically I install Electronics for a living, and tell my clients less is more. Once you have all the toys you have to maintain them. This makes ownership more daunting. Partnerships probably make more sence, but my boat is so personal I have a hard time imagining sharing the process. For daysailing a boat club probably makes sence if you find one that keeps the boats tip top. For cruising a partnership would still feel more personal that charter fleet boats. Personally I just don't like the feel of bare boats I have chartered. I am probably a snob but I spend the whole week making a mental list of how I would "fix" the boat. In summary I do not know how to reduce the cost of dockage or insurance. Maintenance can be simplified with less stuff that isn't actually needed. Time: well that is a choice we all have to make.
Excellent observation. And I agree with this completely. The race to make everything on a boat more sophisticated is actually leaving more and more people behind. Hopefully the trend reverses, along with slip and mooring fees. There are several examples up here where there is actual availability for slips and moorings which is unheard of, so many demand is weakening and prices will come down…? Thanks for the comment.
Our 1970 33' Sloop is probably worth about $7500 and the annual fixed costs (mooring, storage, insurance, seatow, registration, etc.) adds up to about $5,000. That's about 80% of the boat value, not 15%. We can afford it only because of our partnership but one member is aging out. Also, insurance company frowns on partnership with such an old boat so officially, its mine.
Interesting. We haven’t run into that issue with our insurance (Progressive) but we purchased the boat as a LLC. Wonder if that makes a difference? We all (3) had to submit our sailing resume and that was about it.
We're with Ski Safe.. they said, "We would decline to cover that risk" (as a partnership). Didn't ask anything else. They did cover it with me as sole owner. I think the age of the boat had something to do with it but I'm not sure how. Good to know others will. I think it is the way to go. Not only does partnership help with the costs but if you don't have a family that is keen on sailing, partners work too! We've been partners for 20 years approx.
Agreed. The partnership has worked very well for us. 5th season upcoming. Our wives like to sail but don’t love it the way we do so it has worked very well for us so far.